fisheries and revenue rasing

[markus]

Hi

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, sorry if its wrong, I fished the trailer boat tournament on the 2nd 3rd and 4th of april 2009, i was in a friends boat, we were drifting on the norh side of middle island, when after about 10 mins we seen this boat come screaming towards us, it was nsw fisheries, they asked us for our licences then continued to tell us that we are in a sanctuary zone. They asked who is the skipper of the boat? my friend said he is, They then said do you realise that your resposnible for the people in the boat and you should be aware of the areas that you can and cant fish.  He said there is a possiblity that you could be fined upto $500 for fishing in a sanctuary zone. But this is upto the nsw fisheries to decide.  1 week later he recieved a fine in the mail from the person who issued the fine, I also recieved a $500 fine for fishing in the area so thats $1000 for 2 people fishing out of the same boat which they didnt not mention that we would both recieve the fine.  Is this right, because to me its a load of crap,, you can almost compare this in being in a car with a driver who is speeding they then pull you over , but not only the driver gets a fine and looses points but everyone else in the car as well who has a licence.  what a joke?  My next concern is, where they were sitting was on the boundry of the sanctuary zone on the south side, they would have seen us drifting while fishing and heading towards the sanctuary zone. But no they waited to we crossed.  No warning. which brings me to my next point after reading all the material which is posted they say if caught you could be at risk for an on the spot fine..  Why did they say it was up to the fisheries, but a week later they posted the fine out which was issued by them, where is the on the spot fine.

I want to know what i can do, as im not paying this?

After motoring away they continued on drifting in the sanctuary zone, another boat approached the area and went into the zone, they sat back and waited for them to drop a line in before they then powered over again to get them.

The trailer boat tourny brought in roughly 1million dollars to the port stephens/nelsonbay area over the 4 days, and i have never seen so many fisheries offices out in force to sit on the board of these areas and patrol the areas.
a few people said they would never go back and feel like they have been set up as it just seemed like it was a revenue rasing 4 days. I heard something like 250 infringements were given out this could have been more.

80% of the people who fish this tourny are not from the hunter region, great way to promote tourism.

any information that could help us beat this, because i think we were hard done by. would be much appreciated

cheers
markus

 

[CEO]

marcus, if your legal eagle can spin this issue out until the next state government election, (March 2011) you may be exonerated. For the Opposition has promised to do away with so called sanctuary zones (except for the old Critical Habitat Zones for the Grey Nurse shark) and allow recreational fishing in all zones of Opposition marine parks. They will focus on protecting the habitat rather than persecuting family recreational fishers. After all a healthy habitat, means a healthy fishery! And one of the first things they will do is to filter all the stormwater that enters their marine parks and develop ways of harvesting and re-using this water so it doesn't impact on marine habitats. The Opposition wants NSW rercreational fishers to use THEIR marine parks, not lock people out of them! And that sounds great to all ECOfishers.  Don't be too hard on the Fisheries officers. They are just the messangers. They are only doing what they are told to do, by the government. Your real argument is with the NSW Labor government and their draconian marine park rules and regulations. Instead of getting angry mate, you can always get even - next election and tell everyone you know.
  Any other suggestions from others out there?

[kingpro]

Markus,
           It would appear that the way you were treated is normal procedure as I have heard of this on previous occasions - that is for compliance officers to insinuate that you may not be receiving a penalty only to receive one in the mail later.  Obviously designed to avoid confrontation at the time.
            May I suggest that the letter you have written on this post be forwarded to the Port Stephens Examiner so that the unfair treatment you received is made public.
            The publicity may help your case by raising its profile especially as the majority of local residents are vehemently against the Marine Park 
             Examiner letters to the editor news@pse.fairfax.com.au
            The most frustrating part is that there is no point to these ridiculous rules - what are they trying to achieve by fining people for fishing.
             You can contact the relevant MPA on 02 4916 3970 and ask for the fine to be rescinded siting ignorance of the rules etc
            Your other option is to take it to court, certainly a hefty and inequitable penalty in relation to the offence - if you could call it an offence.
             Please let us know what action you take.
             I would be happy to help with the letter to the Examiner if you wish, send me a PM by clicking on my moniker.
             
             
             Regards Kingpro

           

[CEO]

Another consideration Marcus is that if you defend this issue in court and lose you will be fined and have a criminal conviction recorded against you. That has some implications in some spheres too. If you just pay the ridiculous fine which is all out of proportion to the alleged offence, that is the end of the matter. We do understand however that you remain on a Fisheries data base for offences. Check what the fine is for speeding thru' a School Zone. You will then see that the life of a child is of less value to the NSW government than allegedly fishing (and not necessarily catching anything) in one of their marine parks. Revenue raising and ripping off fishers for sure.  Keep us all posted on what you decide to do and we will supply as much help as we possibly can. Rocky

[kingpro]

Hi Guys
          On the point of inequity concerning these outlandish fines.

          By comparison a speeding fine < 15k over the limit is $81 and < 15k in an active school zone is $135.

          In the case of speeding infringements the speed limit is clearly marked and school zones have flashing lights - and there is a clear aim of the restrictions ie road safety & safety of children.

          A $500 fine for fishing for (not catching ) fish in an unmarked sanctuary zone where the aim of the restrictions is some riciculously vague and obscure reference to protecting biodiversity - from what!!
           
           It is so nonsensical it is almost laughable - if it wasnt such a serious impingement of fundamental rights and freedom.

Kingpro

[snapper]

marcus, if your legal eagle can spin this issue out until the next state government election, (March 2011) you may be exonerated. For the Opposition has promised to do away with so called sanctuary zones (except for the old Critical Habitat Zones for the Grey Nurse shark) and allow recreational fishing in all zones of Opposition marine parks. They will focus on protecting the habitat rather than persecuting family recreational fishers. After all a healthy habitat, means a healthy fishery! And one of the first things they will do is to filter all the stormwater that enters their marine parks and develop ways of harvesting and re-using this water so it doesn't impact on marine habitats. The Opposition wants NSW rercreational fishers to use THEIR marine parks, not lock people out of them! And that sounds great to all ECOfishers.  Don't be too hard on the Fisheries officers. They are just the messangers. They are only doing what they are told to do, by the government. Your real argument is with the NSW Labor government and their draconian marine park rules and regulations. Instead of getting angry mate, you can always get even - next election and tell everyone you know.
  Any other suggestions from others out there?

Well this is the best news I have heard of for a long time. Has the NSW Opposition giving this guarantee to do away with so called sanctuary zones and allow recreational fishing in all zones of marine parks in writing? It is important to have such undertakings set in concrete. They are slippery devils these politicians. With behavioral traits of being all things to all people. Who was the Opposition politician who gave this undertaking? I would like to write to this person and thank them. It is important that this bold undertaking is supported with letters. I would encourage all Ecofishers members to do this.

[CEO]

  This promise can only be delivered IF the current Opposition, becomes the government. Now Snapper, this is where YOU can help. Make it happen!

[snapper]

  This promise can only be delivered IF the current Opposition, becomes the government. Now Snapper, this is where YOU can help. Make it happen!

Thanks for the advice. I'm more than happy to make it happen. So who do I write to in the Opposition to thank for their marine park policy of recreational fisherfolk being able to fish in all areas of marine parks?

It is important that this announcement by the Coalition is supported by as many letters as possible.

[CEO]

Fisheries'  Critical Habitat Zones, for the 927 individual Grey Nurse sharks that have been identified so far, excepted. Why not write to Barry O'Farrell, and ask him what his party's policy is. You might even be able to contribute to it!  I think a bloke who is a friend of Lake Durras on the South Coast announced it, in some media. He is always in the media banging on about not being able to fish in front of the property he rents, near Lake Durras or something.

[CEO]

   Marcus, don't make any hasty decisions and don't make them, till you have considered ALL your options.

[snapper]

   Marcus, don't make any hasty decisions and don't make them, till you have considered ALL your options.
[Advice taken. I'll write to the NSW Leader of the Opposition, expressing my gratitude for their policy on opening up sanctuary zones to all recreational fisherfolk if they win the next NSW State Election. This letter will trickle down the the Coalition members who negotiated this committment with Ecofishers. Well done!

They deserve my support./quote]

[CEO]

  Marcus, stay tuned mate. ECOfishers is tracking down some recent cases and legal precedents for you to consider. Bear in mind mate, if you choose to defend this ridiculous matter in court and win, (as some have already done) your legal fees may well exceed the cost of the fine. But then again it is the principle of the matter that counts, too. So stay watching and listening. ECOfishers should have some important information for you, by next week.
            ECOfishers - making people part of the solution!

[CEO]

Marcus, check your messages. We have some important and helpful information for you. CEO
 Still waiting to hear from you Marcus. Make contact mate. We have some further news and advice that is seriously to your advantage. CEO

[markus]

hi all

sorry for the delay, but i have been away with work.

I have been told from alot of people who i have been talking too, that the the skipper/boat owner should be responsible for this as they told us on the day. Everyone on the boat should not get a fine for this.  I have also done some searching on the fisheries site which sort of relates to the fine i got, The tittle of the offence is(harm/attempt to harm animal in sanctuary zone)

now the closest thing i have found is clause 18a in the legislation which states the following

18A   Protection of animals, plants and habitat in special purpose zone

(1)  A person must not, while in the special purpose zone of a marine park:
(a)  harm, or attempt to harm, any animal (other than fish), or
(b)  harm, or attempt to harm, any plant, or
(c)  damage, take or interfere with, or attempt to damage, take or interfere with, any part of the habitat (including soil, sand, shells or other material occurring naturally within the zone),
      except with the consent of the relevant Ministers.

Maximum penalty: 100 penalty units.


(2)  Consent is only to be given under subclause (1):
(a)  for research, environmental protection, public health, traditional use or public safety purposes, or
(b)  for the purposes of an ecologically sustainable use.
(3)  (Repealed)


now this is the one that gets me thinking

(a)  harm, or attempt to harm, any animal (other than fish), or

Did i harm an animal in this zone, the answer No, Did i attempt to catch a fish, Yes. did i catch a fish, No, but hold on it states (other than fish), does this seem strange.

I cant find any other info that relates to my offence apart from the above. Which to me means as long as im not hurting an animal or plant ther then fish, im ok to do this.

I wish i could take it to court, but is it worth the cost, no, Im a blue collared worker with a young family and cannot afford to do this, i want to try a different mean of doing this with out paying this fine and out of court,  I contacted jody mckay, and replied straight away and gave me the details of Hon Greg Donnelly MLC, Duty MLC for Port Stephens to state my case, i still havnt recieved a reply. 

I guess i wont if i have not recieved a reply by now.

I feel like writing to the  state debt recovery office, and say i will pay this off at a $5 a week, just to drag it out.

Any other info would be much appreicated

regards

markus

[CEO]

Markus, perhaps you should be reading and rsearching the NSW Marine Park Regulatins. (1999) Checkyour personal messages mate for additional info and a contact, that may be very useful. Stay in touch through our website.